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Underworld - better crits? NO!

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    Underworld - better crits? NO!

    Hello,

    This new building - coach doesn't work. I have 10% better crits (2 lvl).
    I started pet fights:

    1st hit normal: 191028
    2nd hit normal: 245607

    3rd (if normal):300186
    but 3rd was crit: 600372 (x2 normal) - basic crit without coach!!!

    Where is my 10% more? It should be x2,1. Playa gave new feature and it doesn't work xD I bet 99% won't even notice it

    #2
    You observe wrong, caus you deduce with one example [...]

    How much times you need to repeat a fight in exact same conditions to observe right? Thousands, easily. It's called make statistics.

    There is a part of RNG on fights on this game. A HUGE part or RNG. First, for every turn the damage change:
    turn 1: A attack: basic damage
    turn 2: B attack: damage X1.2
    turn 3: A attack: damage X1.4
    turn 4: B attack: damage X1.6
    turn 5: A attack: dodge/parry
    turn 6: B attack: damage X2
    [...]

    Second, there is an other RNG part on each attacks. It comes from what I call weapon dispersion:
    You don't know this values for pets, fortress and underworld units but it doesn't mean it's not here.

    Third, we know if a hit are critical the damage are around X2, but we don't even know if there is no RNG in it too. It could be a random value between X1.95 and X2.05 for example.

    So please don't conclude on a single fight what you will need thousands more to be sure of what you say...
    LucaBlack | s12.fr | lvl 267 | 371 mushrooms | ON for testings
    LucaBlack | w6.net | lvl 406 | 17716 mushrooms | ON
    LucaBlack | w17.net | lvl 184 | 345 mushrooms | ON for testings
    UnderTarget | s2.fr | lvl 143 | 0 mushrooms | ON

    sigpic

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      #3
      starshooter is right.

      with my test char i battled unhere with 10% crit-bonus and with 15% crit-bonus.

      i saved 5 fights with 10% bonus and compared it with 6 fights with 15%.
      the damage did not change.

      here my results:
      10%
      attacking first:
      1. hit: 160,943 / 321,886 (crit.)
      2.hit: 214,591 / 429,182 (crit.)
      3.hit: ??? / 536,477 (crit.)

      attacking secound:
      1. hit: 187,767 / 375,534 (crit.)
      2.hit: ??? / 482,829 (crit.)


      15%
      attacking first:
      1. hit: 160,943 / ??? (crit.)
      2.hit: ??? / 429,182 (crit.)
      3.hit: 268,239 / ??? (crit.)

      attacking secound:
      1. hit: 187,767 / 375,534 (crit.)
      2.hit: 241,415 / 482,829 (crit.)


      you can see the values did not change,
      i also checked if it is just visual, but no the life is reduced by the same amount.


      i of course can not tell if the crit-bonus works / doesnt work for your char and companions,
      but i know it doesnt work for the pets



      Edit:

      Originally posted by LucaBlack View Post

      [...] Second, there is an other RNG part on each attacks. It comes from what I call weapon dispersion:
      You don't know this values for pets, fortress and underworld units but it doesn't mean it's not here. [...]
      You are mistaken, we know the weapon damage of pets,
      they have absolutly no range / no RNG:
      Last edited by Eggman95; 29 October 2017, 05:19 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for your report, we will look into this!

        Shakes & Fidget Community Manager


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        Comment


          #5
          I was very sceptical at first too, because it is harder to verify this critical damage bonus and bugs do happen so I decided to test it myself. For the purpose I equiped a weapon with very low damage range so it would output very similar results for each fight.



          Then I saved several fights against Twister 546 with 5% critical bonus. Here is my third hit:



          Then I waited to build my Gladiator Trainer to level two so it gives me 10% bonus without buying any stats between the fights. Here is my third hit again:



          First fight: 16.422 / 1.05 = 15.64 (without bonus)
          Second fight: 15.64 * 1.10 = 17.204 (approximately what you see on the picture)

          I compared 4-5 hits and the result was all the same: first hit / 1.05 = second hit / 1.10

          So be cool with this one - the most important bonus works Pets probably need fixing, I haven't tested that, but my hero bonus is good enough for me.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Sersemina View Post

            So be cool with this one - the most important bonus works Pets probably need fixing, I haven't tested that, but my hero bonus is good enough for me.
            Sersemina there is no proof in your post. In your case I would agree with LucaBlack. You have ranged weapon. How can you know that this 2nd cirt in not just a bit better range hit? How can you see that 10% bonus in this case? It's impossible in your case! Only one way to check is PETS.

            Pets have always same (no range) dmg and you can evaluate dmg:

            1Hit(no crit)
            2Hit(no crit)=1hit(no crit) + delta

            delta=2Hit-1Hit

            3Hit=2Hit+delta

            And so on. Crit is x2 normal DMG (ALWAYS).
            So in this case:

            "
            here my results:
            10%
            attacking first:
            1. hit: 160,943 / 321,886 (crit.)
            2.hit: 214,591 / 429,182 (crit.)
            3.hit: ??? / 536,477 (crit.)
            "
            Delta=53,648

            So 3.Hit (no crit) = 214,591 + 53,648 = 268,239

            3.Hit(cirt) = 3.Hit(no crit) x2 = 536,478

            Calculations match exactly to observed result. Where is then this 10% bonus dmg? Answer - it doesn't work!!!

            If it doesn't work for pets - I assume it doesn't work for all others. You can't check it simple in PvP, PvM because of range weapon.


            THERE IS NO RNG IN DMG!!!!!!!
            Last edited by sharshooter; 29 October 2017, 08:02 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sharshooter View Post
              Sersemina there is no proof in your post. In your case I would agree with LucaBlack. You have ranged weapon. How can you know that this 2nd cirt in not just a bit better range hit? [...]
              Sersemina clearly presented his evidence,
              look at his first screenshoot:

              His weapeon has a range of 4 or to be more precise his weapon has a deviation of (1562/1560 = ~1,0012821) ~0,13%.

              That clearly shows that the gladiator works for your main char.



              @Sersemina if you give that weapon to your scout-companion and do a few trys in shadow easteros, you could check if the gladiator applies there.

              Comment


                #8
                Sersemina can you upgrade coach to 20% and dont invest stats in dex please. Show us that crit with 20% coach and same other stuff/stats.

                Comment


                  #9
                  @sharshooter , I think we are on the same page already, but just a few more thoughts on that: I would use the world "delta" to describe the deviation from the average. As Eggman95 pointed, my weapon damage deviation is 0.13%, so if the average third hit is 16.42 mln , there is no way with ± 0.13% deviation I can get a 17.2 mln hit. Also, you mentioned something that is not quite correct:
                  "And so on. Crit is x2 normal DMG (ALWAYS).". You are forgetting the 5% bonus from the enhanced weapon so the critical damage is = normal damage * 2 * 1.05. That's why I excluded the normal hits from my observations and focused on crits only.

                  @Eggman95, I will test the tower companions too. I already tried a few fights, but the problem is my companions are completely naked. I have abandoned the shadow dungeons and focused on Twister so my scout companion currently has about 20% chance to crit. That makes it a lot harder to collect data. I spent a few mushrooms, but I didn't get a single crit from him... Now that I think about it, I can use my main character equpment on the tower companion and try again with higher luck, but this will probably happen tomorrow or on Tuesday, because I am collecting souls for Soul Extractor level 5 and have my own plans for the Underworld buildings. I will keep you posted

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The bonus works on companions too! Here is the same test:

                    1. Low range weapon:



                    2. First hit with 10% gladiator bonus:



                    3: First hit with 15% gladiator bonus:



                    Results: 23,74 / 1,10 * 1,15 = 24,819

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