Our voice is not always heard, I propose global equality!

[Strider]

As members of the International Community, our voice is not always heard.

Feedback and Decisions are being made mostly without our input in the German Forums.

I propose we have new representation in Community Feedback that provides equality between Germany and the rest of the world.

1. If there is concern and feedback about an update, that information should be passed between all forums, but most importantly the German Forums and the International Forums.

2. If there is a poll being conducted that Playa would take advice from for decision making, that poll should be conducted between all forums.

3. A decision should not be made until feedback is gathered from all communities.

This way, we have an equal, global community.

[Apollo]

As members of the International Community, our voice is not always heard.

Feedback and Decisions are being made mostly without our input in the German Forums.

I propose we have new representation in Community Feedback that provides equality between Germany and the rest of the world.

1. If there is concern and feedback about an update, that information should be passed between all forums, but most importantly the German Forums and the International Forums.

2. If there is a poll being conducted that Playa would take advice from for decision making, that poll should be conducted between all forums.

3. A decision should not be made until feedback is gathered from all communities.

This way, we have an equal, global community.

Which decisions are being made in the german forums?

[Leander]

I disagree. Feedback, thoughts, suggestions and criticism of all communities are forwarded by local community managers regularly and in-depth in the monthly report. There are no situations that German players want a new dungeon but the French community wants something new to do with pets and the German forum would play a more important role because of community size or due to Playa's German roots.

Feedback is collected from individual communities and added up.

What is even more important: there are no real differences! An update is loved or hated in the same way across the S&F world. Suggestions are similar too.

What you suggest (1-4) has been done by community managers for years anyway, reports, internal discussions etc.

EDIT Local forums are based on language. It wouldn't make sense or change anything if all non-German players signed up in the German forum and posted their feedback there.

[Strider]

Which decisions are being made in the german forums?

Here is the result of the most recent proposal by the German Forums and Playa's decision.

https://forum-int.sfgame.net/showthread.php?t=7815

The German Forums held a poll:



The majority voted for a Gem Mine limit of 50.

After an exhaustive discussion, Playa decided to limit the Gem Mine to 100 and the Gold Pit to 100.

[Strider]

I disagree. Feedback, thoughts, suggestions and criticism of all communities are forwarded by local community managers regularly and in-depth in the monthly report. There are no situations that German players want a new dungeon but the French community wants something new to do with pets and the German forum would play a more important role because of community size or due to Playa's German roots.

I saw nothing forwarded to the International Forum regarding a cap to the Gem Mine and Gold Pit in order to get the International Forum's feedback.

Local forums are based on language. It wouldn't make sense or change anything if all non-German players signed up in the German forum and posted their feedback there.

I believe if Non-German players were not signed into the German forum, the result might have been different (ie a cap at 50). I am very appreciative of the fact that Playa made the decision they made.

I am just asking that next time, the International Forum be included in the discussion.

[Leander]

The German community manager posted the poll. Sometimes we are told to do something in all forums but every community manager also acts on his/her own. For example, I posted a poll which S&F version you all use but others didn't.
As there are internal talks anyway all communites are heard and nobody is excluded.

[Strider]

To be clear, I've been very happy with the International Forum (much of the improvement came directly from Leander's efforts, a very fair community manager) ... but was personally horrified when I came across the German Forum poll ... my participation there was minimal for the last year (up until the last few days), mostly only to gain information based on tools, calculations, etc. (Much thanks to Eggman95 for a lot of this, and the other players who spend their personal time crunching the numbers).

Again, to reiterate, I just ask inclusion ... because Playa came back very quickly with an answer to the German Forum request ... which affects S&F globally.

[bobo baggins]

I know me and BMW haven't always seen eye to eye on different things over the years but this I have to agree ALL FORUMS SHOULD HAVE HAD A CHANCE FOR IMPUT. the decision to change the cap on gem mine and gold pit effects all and to have only 1 forum having the chance to give their input is messed up to put it kindly.

Wow we had a poll on which version of the game we use like that is going to effect how the game is played everyone knows Flash is done just a matter of time we all get forced to change to 3.0. So to say your poll is just as important as the one on the German forum that's a joke but if you may or may not notice I am not laughing. We didn't need a pol but just a chance to give our input.

That all being said I am fine with the change just wished 1 I knew about talks of changing the cap and 2 could of had mine and everyone else's input to get a better chance of getting what the w.hole S+F communities wanted.

[Jörg]

All forums do have the right to give input and this forum here did that often enough. You can thank Leander for his work, we are in contact all the time.

BMW is changing the (forum-)game here a bit by telling you that a user vote did change something.
WRONG. The only vote that counts for me is a vote that I set up.
Also that vote he mentions never had any impact on our decision, because the question asked there is totally irrelevant (because it only asks about one "solution" that one user suggested) - and BMW knows that.

So please, do not fool the not-german understanding people by claiming things that never happened that way.

Try using convincing facts, reasons and explanations - those do work for me.
BMW knows that because he knows (and wrote in the thread in the german forum), that the change that will come, is a consensus of almost all reasons that were written by the different users (fun fact: the 100 instead of the 50 is because of his postings).

[Acclamator]

Well I see some justification for BMW's complains.
By saying this:

fun fact: the 100 instead of the 50 is because of his postings

You yourself agree that his voice had an impact and would have not if he did not randomly stample about our discussion in the german forum, what will rarely be the case for non-german speakers.

On the other hand I found this example quite good and rare, because communications and decision making was very transparent there, not facing players with faits accomplis, but maybe the discussion could have been passed to the international forum to hear their arguments if they have some, before the decission was made. I guess that would also have helped BMW as he seems to be a non-german speaker also that trys to communicate with the germans with translaters, with moderate success.

[bobo baggins]

All forums do have the right to give input and this forum here did that often enough. You can thank Leander for his work, we are in contact all the time.

BMW is changing the (forum-)game here a bit by telling you that a user vote did change something.
WRONG. The only vote that counts for me is a vote that I set up.
Also that vote he mentions never had any impact on our decision, because the question asked there is totally irrelevant (because it only asks about one "solution" that one user suggested) - and BMW knows that.

So please, do not fool the not-german understanding people by claiming things that never happened that way.

Try using convincing facts, reasons and explanations - those do work for me.
BMW knows that because he knows (and wrote in the thread in the german forum), that the change that will come, is a consensus of almost all reasons that were written by the different users (fun fact: the 100 instead of the 50 is because of his postings).

Yes I know Leander is he is not to blame here Playa is by not asking all community managers to post something asking for input.

That may be that the thread was about 1 solution but no one here knew that it was being talked about and it would have been nice to maybe give an idea that Playa didn't think of that could have been better example raise the lvl of both by say 25-50 levels a year gives players a feeling that they can finish it and not be over whelmed by how much has to be done.

to say in 1 sentence that the thread/discussion had no impact on Playa's decision then in the next say 1 players input had an impact on Playa's contradicts at best some may even consider it an out right lie. I am not saying anyone lied but if you at you could see where some ppl may come to that conclusion.

I have played this game going on 8 years now I went from a newb to helping the then US community to helping here and tbh the way the game has grown (this is my opinion) I am not a fame especially on the 2 remastering of the game has grown. with all the loading issues and bugs that are not getting fixed some being reported from day 1 to seeing something like voices getting added to the game which does nothing for game play other then maybe it sound better. but if you cant load the game or take so long you give up trying all the sounds in the world are useless.

a solution when something like this is discussed and Playa is considering a change ALL forum communities should get a chance to give their input before a final solution is reached.

[Arturu]

We have to keep things real.

The only impact we, as the community, have is through suggestions and complaints. And it's impossible to ask for more.

Let's take the current example. Playa wants to change max levels of Mines and asks the community about it.
Only fraction of the playerbase gives their input and can settle on a solution that is not actually good for the game. Then Playa comes with a different change and ends up as the bad guy who doesn't care about what players think.

Voting would improve this problem but not by much. A lot can change during just the voting process. Maybe someone gives an even better solution. Maybe they come up with an idea for future content that requires specific solution here. A lot can happen.

No matter the game, if devs actually look at feedback and try to solve bigger complaints then things are good (as good as they can be).


That being said it is one thing to read in a monthly or weekly report "people are mostly not happy with this or that change" and completely another to be on said forum and need to respond to these things.

Also I am really tired of the fact that we get specific changes to time based systems (Fortress / Underworld) without any time to prepare at all.

And why were changes announced only on the German forum?
It might be a good idea to keep forums separate, but it so happens that the servers are worldwide.

[Acclamator]

You need to understand the situation: in the german forum started some rumor quickly after the change to unlimited gems was anounced, many people reacted in a complains thread. Soon a pol was created from a normal user in a seperate thread that was about asking players if they are ok with the change, wanted a cap at 50 or a higher cap and as you might aspect discussion started their too. Some time after that another thread was created in the suggestions categorie suggesting to make a cap at 50, with quite unusual numbers of thankers and a lot of controvers discussion too. Around a week after the first thread some asked why playa doesn't react to all this discussion resulting in KO saying they can not react to something he didn't even forwarded to them, but which he would do that day and later that day he gave a quick feedback about his meeting with his colleagues and their discussion prossumably to cool down all that people. The information from this feedback was soon after posted here from BMW (I guess before Leander could have taken action) and was quickly confirmed by Leander. So changes were anounced in both forums quite simultaniously.

My suggestion for the future would be to not just inform the international community about a change based on discussion and arguments in the german forums, but to inform them about the discussion and arguments itself before making a decission.
The time for this would have been there, because the change will go live just with the next usual update.

[bobo baggins]

here is the thing Arturu they only ask one part of the community (German forums) if they had asked ppl on all their forums and ended up with what ever fine ad dandy some may have been upset but t least we would have had a chance to put our 2 cents in on it.

the problem is not that they made the change the problem is they only got input from part of the community. Not saying what I am about to say is true but sure looks like it. it looks like they only care about one portion of the player base.

It isn't a matter if BMW didn't tell us everything or not which KO is trying to make it seem tbh that I don't care about that. what matters is that no one outside of the German forums it would seem even knew that Playa was thinking of changing the cap. That could make players change their strategy I know it will change mine for sure.

[Strider]

BMW is changing the (forum-)game here a bit by telling you that a user vote did change something.
WRONG. The only vote that counts for me is a vote that I set up.
Also that vote he mentions never had any impact on our decision, because the question asked there is totally irrelevant (because it only asks about one "solution" that one user suggested) - and BMW knows that.

I honestly did not know that. Legitimately I thought that the Poll and the request not only influenced the decision, but the timeliness in which the decision was made.

Here is my point of view:

1. I was browsing the German Forums
2. I came across a poll asking for votes on capping the gem mine (a. cap at 50, b. cap above 50, c. leave it d. don't care)
3. The discussion surrounded a player who was already at level 30 gem mine
4. The majority of votes was for a cap at level 50.
5. Someone discovered that my Gem Mine was already at level 45 because I spent a ton of money skipping build times (if you look at my signature, you know I spend money)
6. There were calls for an INSTANT resolution to cap the gem mine at 50 even though there was still a week left in the poll (February 3, 2019)
7. I was extremely concerned because, had I known about a level cap I would have not spent so much money to quickly level my gem mine (we can cover my strategy elsewhere, Sersemina understands)
8. I was told by other players (You knew Playa would cap the gem mine, too bad you spent all that money, tough sh** because of the terms of service) (This is NOT Playa, this was the German Forum + a moderator)
9. I was told if I can't speak German I need to not participate
10. It got heated (Bobo Baggins remembers the good old days of the US Forums) because I was in 100% Defense Mode ... extremely upset that because I was close to 50, and instant solution was being called for ... the real reason (which is in the forums) was to stop me from closing in on the advantage of older servers from having higher placement in the international hall of fame.
11. KO771 said that the gem mine and gold pit would be capped at 100, all discussion on the matter then ceased, I said thank you as I felt this was an excellent compromise.

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It was a very interesting experience to say the least. From my point of view, I felt like it was me against the German Forum. And I had a language disadvantage because Google Translate is not perfect. I felt like I was angering people because a. I couldn't understand the language properly and b. I was ruining other's gameplay because I was spending money.

I only reacted when members of the German Forum realized I would surpass level 50 soon and they called for an immediate cap, then I went into defensive mode.

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Yes, I am in agreement that an unlimited gem mine would give an unfair advantage to someone crazy enough to spend a lot of money in the game (yes that is me) and I am driven (its called OCD) to be the best, and this was my chance to catch up to the best in the world (The International Hall of Fame, which gives no benefit other than seeing your name on a competitive wall, which compels me to compete).

I felt like it would be more fair to put a limit on the Gem Mine, I had thought 255 like the Gold Pit. When I saw the poll and the reactions, I quickly changed my mind and thought level 100 would be fair. I even thought that since the German Forum saw someone was so close to 50, they would vote for 100. But I was wrong and realized the cold, hard truth was they wanted an immediate cap of 50.

Then I felt singled out ...

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My "battle" (what it felt like) on the German Forums is irrelevant, my request is for the International Forum to have an equal voice. If there is a discussion that can impact the global community, please communicate it with the global community.

Had I known, as stated by KO771, that the poll and discussion would have absolutely no influence on the decision making, I might have kept quiet. But I didn't know that, all I knew was a Forum was calling for something that would have nullified my spending of a ton of money. And I went into full defense mode.

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At the end of the day, just please keep us informed, and please give us a voice.

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I have thanked Leander several times, as I've said, I feel he is a very good and fair moderator, and keeps a cool head as a mediator.
I also thank you KO771 for the opportunity to let me speak, and I want to thank Playa and its staff for capping the Gem Mine and Gold Pit at 100 instead of 50.