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    Decreased power of gems

    The last few weeks or so, the gems I have excavated are of significantly lower "power" than previously... Is it just me being unlucky or have someone else the same sensation?
    My toon has gained level and the gem mine level is increased too... yet the recent big black gems I have excavated give around 95-98% of the value of those I excavated previously.

    #2
    Originally posted by slasker View Post
    The last few weeks or so, the gems I have excavated are of significantly lower "power" than previously... Is it just me being unlucky or have someone else the same sensation?
    My toon has gained level and the gem mine level is increased too... yet the recent big black gems I have excavated give around 95-98% of the value of those I excavated previously.
    RNG ... trust me
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      #3
      Originally posted by slasker View Post
      The last few weeks or so, the gems I have excavated are of significantly lower "power" than previously... Is it just me being unlucky or have someone else the same sensation?
      My toon has gained level and the gem mine level is increased too... yet the recent big black gems I have excavated give around 95-98% of the value of those I excavated previously.
      Just bad luck.
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        #4
        Good to know. TY... Looking forward seeing my luck turn once again

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          #5
          Hi
          It's my first post on this forum but I'm a moderator of the french forum of the game and I have a good knowledge of the game.

          In my search for the formula of gems, I noticed that all the formulas that have been proposed on the various forums do not work for extreme cases (especially at high level of mine). I play mainly on s2.fr, and with the player furaken (which is sometimes in the top 10 of international pantheon) we studied the progression of the stats of the gems according to the level of the mine.
          Here is the curve that we found and that explains all the cases we studied:

          .

          Furaken was level 531, his guild had 952 knights and he had his level 59 gem mine at the time we speculated the presence of an ln in the formula. Indeed, his best gem was 1131. We used all the formulas that had been suggested on the different forums. We varied the coefficients of the different parameters (player level, mine level and number of knights).

          This curve could be confirmed thanks to Strider of s1.us (aka BMWGuiness on this forum: thank you !) with its level 100 gem mine level. For comparison, here are the Strider parameters of s1.us Level 497, Gem Mine 100 and 985 Knights : His best black gem is 1178. It is by seeing the stats of Strider's gems that the presence of ln in the formula has become obvious to us.

          We have discovered that the gem stats formula contains a logarithm. Thus the stats given by the gems progress logarithmically (the progression is therefore increasingly weak at each level of mine).

          on one side we have : 41 gem level difference, furaken 34 level more and strider with 30 knights more. The difference between the stats of the gems are only 47 which is pretty ridiculous.
          Last edited by Enza; 13 August 2019, 04:46 AM.
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          Enza
          French forum moderator

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            #6
            Hi Enza, yes I believe this was because they originally intended to limit the gem mine to 50 until they realized I had already surpassed 50. This is very good work!, and explains why Furaken has the highest Luck in the game (for now). I hope to battle him in the IHOF by year's end! My highest gem is 1183 at level 503 with Knights 967 (49 members).
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              #7
              Originally posted by BMWGuinness View Post
              Hi Enza, yes I believe this was because they originally intended to limit the gem mine to 50 until they realized I had already surpassed 50. This is very good work!, and explains why Furaken has the highest Luck in the game (for now). I hope to battle him in the IHOF by year's end! My highest gem is 1183 at level 503 with Knights 967 (49 members).
              Good luck for that ;-)
              I boosted my gem mine but when I realize that the stats progression was logarithmic, I choose to take my time (Furaken too) and my

              At the beginning the developers said that the max level was infinite (gold mine max level was 225 - Actually gold mine level 100 give the same amount ofgold per hour as the city guard). Maybe, in order to decrease the deviation between players and player without they decided to put a ln in the formula (which is a pretty bad new)
              Last edited by Enza; 13 August 2019, 05:10 AM. Reason: add text to message
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              Enza
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                #8
                About my own gem parameters : level 470, 966 knights and gem mine level 49. My best black gem is 980 but I can find more : I found some 1515 color gems.
                1515/1.5 = 1010. I'm supposed to find 1010 black gem.
                _____________________________________

                Enza
                French forum moderator

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                  #9
                  So what is the formula?

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                    #10
                    The formula would look like this :

                    Color_gem=(player_lvl*0,36*(1+1,5*LN(gem_mine_lvl+1))+Knights/3)
                    Black_gem=Color_gem/1.5

                    Maybe the multipliers 0.36, 1.5 and 1/3 should be adjusted.
                    Do not forget that there is a value range. For me, I find 1484 for color gem and my best color gem is 1515.
                    (1515-1484)/1484*100 = 2.1%
                    Developers may have chosen a + -2.5% centered on the value that we can calculate on the formula above.

                    EDIT : The first formula of this post is only valid for the big gems.
                    Last edited by Enza; 13 August 2019, 04:55 PM.
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                    Enza
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                      #11
                      Very useful formula and it does show the general trend - I suppose.
                      As you state, the multipliers may be wrong - which seems to be the case for me.
                      My most recent (large) black gems gave 928 and 871 bonuns

                      928: Level 510. HoK 957. Gem mine 35. (formula says: (510*0,36*(1+1,5*LN(35+1))+957/3)/1,5=993)
                      871: Level 511. Hok 957. Gem mine 35. (formula says: (511*0,36*(1+1,5*LN(35+1))+957/3)/1,5=994,53)

                      As you can see, further to the distance to the formula calculation, there is also a significant difference between the two gems. Following the formula the 928 gem would - had it been excavated at level 511 - give 929 or 930 in stat (928/510*511) - so if the numbers reflect max and min, it is +/- 3,3%.

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                        #12
                        I noticed your post some days ago because Strider and Kraggori discussed it on the discord, Enza. But had not much time left to look into all of this interesting stuff lately.

                        Thank you for your affords in connecting the different approaches of finding the gem formula and further developing it! Your latest formula isnt that far off of my best approach with help of the german forums community, we also expected an ln in it https://forum.sfgame.de/showthread.php?t=79330.

                        Its quite clear that such an element must be part of it as KO, the head Coma, officially stated, that later levels of the gem mine wont even increase the average gem for 1 point. Which was already practically proven thanks to the affords of Strider.

                        For my best big black gem (Lvl 475, Mine 36, KH 994, 878) your current approximation also is a little bit more off than 2,5%. But I think thats actually not even that concerning, because the range also seems to get bigger on higher levels of the mine as Strider suggested too.

                        I would like to invite you to discuss the further development of the formula and ofcause other aspects of the game that need some more investigation with us on the international discord for s&f (invite in my signature). The forum(s) is great to persist the findings, but discord is a much more convenient way to communicate and exchange thoughts between the different communitys that playa keeps seperated in different forums.
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                          #13
                          The other thing to consider is the range ... my large black gems range 100 points (1100-1200).
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                            #14
                            @acclamator : thank you for invite on the discord. I will come soon to discuss.

                            I think, we need datas to investigate. To get this datas, we have to do some tests by varying the different parameters that influence the gem stats:
                            For each test we have to search some big gems (color only)

                            Vary the #HoK
                            player level : 25
                            gem mine level :1
                            Hok : 0, 50, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450, 500, 550, 600, 650, 700, 750, 800, 850, 900, 950, 980

                            Vary the player level (need people from various levels)
                            Player level : 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 225, 250, 275, 300, 325, 350, 375, 400, 425, 450, 475, 500, 525
                            HoK: 0 (without guild)
                            Gem mine level : 1

                            In this case, I understand that no player level 300 or above will have his level 1 gem mine but if we could have the data until level 300, it would be very nice and helpful.

                            Vary the gem mine level
                            Player level: be at a constant level (don't do quests/dungeons/guild fights)
                            HoK:0
                            Gem mine level: 1, 2, 3, 4 ..., 100 (it would take a very, very, very long time - like years) but if we have level 1 to 40 it would be very helpful.
                            For each data, we need 10 gem search (in order to determine the min /max values and the range)
                            Last edited by Enza; 16 August 2019, 06:25 AM.
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                            Enza
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                              #15
                              The thread of our investigation on the german board has a huge list of gem examples from different players of different levels and the other parameters. Maybe you can find some of the examples, from the mid/high end especially, that you need there. It's the link in my previous post.

                              Edit: My idea to tackle the problem was the same, several examples with all but one parameter eliminated and i just remembered that we also had quite some examples that were at least close to that
                              Last edited by Acclamator; 16 August 2019, 01:42 PM.
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