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-   -   Current state of the game from my point of view. (http://forum-int.sfgame.net/showthread.php?t=8198)

Ungwe 19th August 2019 09:46 PM

Current state of the game from my point of view.
 
Dear community of players
Iam Ungwe the doomsayer. Why such cringey or stupid title you may ask . Well because i came to foretell the future of the game . Point out the flaws of the game design and self destructive nature of the current path which game is focused on. Lets adress what made me write such post and think about the state of the game i used to love so much in the first place .

I started playing sfgame 10 years ago if i recall correctly as mage on s7.sfgame.cz . I got introduced into game by my friend who also picked mage . We were RPG fans and i had strict parents so i did not have much time to play but this game was perfect . As you may or you may not know , this game is made based on comic which is parody on World of Warcraft what is important and powerful imformation but i will adress that later.

As with every good idea made into great product players had fun , i had fun and everything was good . I kept coming here and there and noticed how many servers were added for reasons i did not understand back then. I was clueless player who kept making and deleting or leaving characters on old czech servers from S1-s10. I had longer and shorter pauses and i remember that i really noticed game back when new class came into game . I made character tried class and left the game . After they added Berserker and international server w34 i really got into game . I decided that ill replay the game and enjoy it as i used to . I knew that theres some fortress which gives XP , Gold , inventory space and gems . I knew about witch , smith album or pets but i never knew what kind of aditions they are.

I bought shrooms and decided that ill be in top 100. I never had a chance . I played game on my own pace on dead servers for fun on more and more dead servers absolutely oblivious to the fact that community is moving ,leaving top players to their server . Oblivious to the fact that each of these new great features were just another new way to speed up players who are willing to pay . To the fact that theres no fun or skill or even luck to the top players in hall of fame . Ive got it pretty fast . I finally got how does the book works adding you XP gain . That pets give you stats , i still dont know what all your little city offers you except those stupid gems.

I thought that game is the same fun game that i remembered it to be but we are all aware of that and i just wasted your time reading my realizations what is known hard truth to you all.

So what is my problem with the game then ? Players willing to spend xxx money for shrooms which are then distributed between all that stupid amount of pay to get high advantage distributed around the city will get high no matter what and you can enjoy the game like you did right ? Well no , i have particularly problem with berseker.

Here we go again right ? Stats , balance , all that **** we already all talked about and agreed to disagree many times before . Let me put it this way . It might work on the paper that from lets say 10000 fights players on same level , gear and stat or so fighting against each other will have 50% winrate because the game is balanced . Its true and its not at the same time . Depends on the point of view and my point of view is that you fight 1 or 2 or 3 fights against one player . And when you fight against that player who is berseker and he let you attack 2-3 times (i was scout , iam supposed to dodge 50%) while absolutely destroying you with X swings in the row that it feels unfair.I fought against zerker same level as me who had lower stats than me 3 times and i lost all of them. Maybe i would win next 2 then lose 1 and then Win 5 until forever when i would reach winrate close to 50% but who does that. This is first time character is able to attack X times in a row . All other characters can evade , block or always get hit , but they have one attack per round (rogue is balanced). This character feels stupid to fight against . Iam not the math guy so i dont know if its fair on paper or not . It does not feels fair to loose against such class and thats why players play the game right ? they feel somehow good about the game . If its not enough to convince you beacuse the game i balanced then why is hall of fame full of bersekers on top ranks ? Because game i balanced and its same to have 50% dodge or 25% block with higher armor etc... and 50% chance to attack again and again and again while not leaving opponent chance to respond.

So i cried about berserker what i suppose is nothing new . Theres also nice post made about battlemage . How bad the class is with 0 responses . Allow me to summarise . Its worse because it lacks warriors shield and the higher the level of the enemy the lower the damage from first fireball what is extremely disadvantageous in Dungeons . Its inferior class .

Rogue , the last of the trinity is balanced. I already mentioned iam not the math guy but i think that if ranger have to avoid 2 hits but hit one to deal 100% while rogue have to avoid 1 and hit 2 to deal 100% it looks fair to me . In the fight between them rogue have to avoid less but hit more while hunter have to avoid more and hit less simply said . Looks fair , FEELS fair . When you loose it actually feels like , okay i lost in a fair fight where i had chance . He dodged my one shot while i got hit by one dagger or whatever. It looks fair , feels fair and thats what is important . You would be amazed how many times people decide by feelings oposed to reason and logic . Thats why i think that there are so many different oppinions about combat balance . It might be talk about logic but there are feelings behind that logic . Otherwise there would be no talk about PVP balance right ?

Lets say old classes are 2 2 2 . Battle mage is 1 , Rogue is 2 and Berseker is 3 where higher number means popularity based on the feeling of the performance of the class .

Most new addons as i already mentioned are made to speed up the progress and separate paying from non paying . Its not to make game more fun , do you have fun building your buildings or getting your pets do the same combat you can in arena ? Do you have fun doing shadow dungeons or whatever ? My review is based on my feelings and i dont feel good about the game .

Now ill start doomsaying (idk if such word exist , iam not native speaker :D ) .
I dont know if this was always happening to the game but there are too many new servers for less and less players . I dont know how fast we were getting new servers in the past . I mean s now int servers . But for obvious reason we are getting international servers only . What are international servers ? Solution to decreasing playerbase on country realms . When was the last sX.sfgame.cz server added ? Ive not idea but there is really fast rate in which there are new international servers being added .(like every 6m ? )

Playa games set self destructive max cash grab path ignoring the fact how does the game feel to play . But what have they ultimately done . Lets say that there are 500 really active paying players on every single older server which exist (those dying ones you know) . Playa games cant delete those servers because there are still paying players but theres must be some price to pay for running such server . They are adding more and more servers and community moves with the flow leaving X paying playing players on dying servers . Question is , how long can aprox 500 players keep financing their server while playa games would still have enough money to finance the servers while having much needed profit . Why ? Because older servers are doomed to fall while playa games is creating newer and newer servers which will attract less and less players because game have nothing trully interesting to offer to old players while maybe not attracting enough new players spreading thinning community among more and more maybe self sufficient servers .

Allow me to explain : Its very simple. You get starting money , you build buildings to attract people to live in them . You get money from those people but most people will leave the building leaving few who are paying you rent . There are also expenses for running that building . Each new building attracts less and less people until you come to that point that your overall income from low amount of people in each building is lower than expenses cowering that amount of buildings you created + theres 0 profit .

What can we now do ?

Ill tell you what , we need to make the game interesting and worth playing on no matter what server.Cold calculating is always doomed to fall . We need to make people to feel interested again. I mentioned at the start that this game being World of Warcraft parody is powerful information.

Allow me to offer you solution. We already have pseudo horde / alliance in the game (humans have horse/orcs have wolf) . Why wont we tailor game around that ? Why wont we offer players sense of wonder and reward from other sources ? This game used to offer this from epic items but now everybody has them . What does give you sense of wonder or acomplishment or something as simple as fun now ? Theres literally nothing worth grinding towards . Endgame is same as early game . Monster be level 10 or 467. So dungeons or epics are not fun , as i mentioned all added cashgrabbing features are not fun and if you are to play the game again and again on newer and newer server , well , it all gets repetitive rather quickly . Even your gear will have same look at level 50 as it would have at 360 .

Since this game is WoW parody , why wont we add new cities with different map pictures fitting to each location. Perks from each city or any other meaning to it . Ability to travel between the cities or around the map . Create Orgrammar ,Stormwater or any other wow city into parody feature in the game . Give players sense of wonder . You have such large amount of creative tools which you can turn into fun features . Why not adding talents ? Sub classes , more items with more abilities or reasons for them to exist ? If you just gave players talents you would hook them because they would want to get those talents . Faction based guilds , wars , ability to raid the city for example or fight for map advantage . Why every player must have their own stupid personal city ? why cant we find bags on quests ? Why cant we collect resources for our Alliance / Horde capital city and contribute to the conflict ? Players from WoW community seek good old Horde/Alliance conflict right now . Why wont you use that ?

Tavern:so much potential to find more than pieces of mirror or some stupid keys into generic dungeons , you can make players seek and find so much . What about just treasure map ? Adding those cities and travelling in between would make players hooked . And there might be treasure , trap whatever ...

Arena : Would it be that hard to implement 2v2 or 3v3 ? Adding different talents or subclasses would make it more fun and less straightforward. Player 1 against player 1 2v2 and 3v3 then 1v2 and 2v3 and 1v3 . Or you would be able to steal item from beaten player . That would be more riskey and maybe more fun.

Guard: Do we really have to always work for money ? what about camping around unknown map , working for shakes for some piece of armor etc .

Weapon / magic shop : Give players more time to obtain high end looking gear . Allow players to find more than buy . Maybe copy some proffesions from wow giving players ability to buy not only gear but material needed to craft certain items for proffesions . Therefore more stuff to find.

Stable: Adding the cities to the game would make one kind of mount upgradeable per race . Example : Human / Alliance : Horse 1g . Horse in Chainmail 5g . Armored Horse 10g 1s. Pegasus 25h... Maybe you might need reputation from each city or whatever .

Pets : Nobody ever liked pets as minigame . If i wanted to play pokemon i would .

WoF: More stuff in game , more stuff to spin the wheel for .

Character panel : Would offer talents , subclasses or anything more you guys would be able to come with

Mail : one thing you nailed

Guild : Would be Horde/ Alliance oriented . That would support competitivness and rivality . Players couldve fought for dungeon entrance , raid entrance or for control over certain map which would give the guild bonuses . Truly feeling of best guild in the game .

HoF : Cursed hall of fame around which the game is currently tailored . Well maybe even delete it from the game .

Dungeons : Why wont we make them for more players to support people to play together ? Some classes would go better against certain enemies or even races . Dwarves + in fights in darnkess . Elves chance to dodge in forest ... some DnD features you know .

Fortress : That would be you map , either of your current placement or war effort map or whatever .

If you implemented only few of these ideas your game would become really one of its kind . Exceptionall , players would enjoy it again and you would get even more players , money and everyone would be happy . But no , you throw all that potential away for present profit , run game in minimum effort maximum money gain for long time . Your ideas or remastered version are efortless cheap illusion to make players feel that this game doesnt run on maintenance mode .

Thanks to everyone who made it here . Let me know what you think , if you agree or disagree . Ill look forward for your response .

Enza 20th August 2019 08:24 AM

Actually, I totaly agree with you.
It's like SF players are cows and Playa is going everyday to take the milk the cows...
Playa developpers doesn't play to Shakes and Fidget. If they did, if they enjoyed the game would not be the same.
The game has a really good potential but the differents parts of the game are not related (not consistent).
Playa caps and decrease the progression at high level but we have the hydra update (which is clearly a high level content). Only the skins of the personnal pets are used for the guild pet.
The game is too repetitive.
So much thing to add, so much ideas to improve the game (on the french forum, I suggest about one good content per month)

Mads 20th August 2019 08:41 AM

About berserkers, they in my opinion are balanced in PvP, 50% chance to attack again is the same thing as 50% chance to dodge and then attack again, dodging just takes longer so maybe it looks weaker. And against mages its fair too, because of their double damage. However i agree that they have an advantage in early game dungeons over scouts, but thats just how the beginnings of new servers are, before if you wanted to be the best for the first months, you had to pick scout because he had the advantage, now you will pick a berserker. Whats important is that the rest of the game and PvP is balanced.

forlong 20th August 2019 04:21 PM

I'm not sure the content is what's destroying this game. For me, I'm good with most stuff. I've been playing since the game first started on s1 US server. Rather it's the amount of people playing on my server that's getting to me.
Heard there's 200K active players in shakes and fidget community worldwide, but not sure there's 100 people playing on my server. Is merging servers that hard?

Ungwe 20th August 2019 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forlong (Post 56992)
I'm not sure the content is what's destroying this game. For me, I'm good with most stuff. I've been playing since the game first started on s1 US server. Rather it's the amount of people playing on my server that's getting to me.
Heard there's 200K active players in shakes and fidget community worldwide, but not sure there's 100 people playing on my server. Is merging servers that hard?

As far as iam aware there was statement from playagames that there will be no merging of servers . Iam not gonna do research on that because I already spent too much time creating the topic post , but they mentioned some kind of problem which led to inability to do so .

While new content is not destroying the game itself , itís not helping the game to become more fun . If new content doesnít help then thereís only thing what it does , contributing to the fall of the game . Our opinions might part on this but I think that most players will agree that new updates were more money focused without offering fun for longer period in combination with something new that have not been there yet.

As I already mentioned : Pets = arena , city = tavern , new dungeons = old dungeons , witch / Smith : donít offer much content , new classes : they are not gamebreaking , it doesnít matter if you attack twice or hurl fireball or attack x times .

Leander 20th August 2019 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ungwe (Post 56989)
...

Thanks for your in-depth feedback, appreciated! While I understand certain points, I don't agree with all. Some suggestions sound like a totally new game and are very unlikely to happen.

Ungwe 20th August 2019 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leander (Post 56994)
Thanks for your in-depth feedback, appreciated! While I understand certain points, I don't agree with all. Some suggestions sound like a totally new game and are very unlikely to happen.

The core of the post werenít my suggestions or improvements. Iam far from competent to tell what can or what can not be implemented into game . I just wanted to point out the connection between world of Warcraft and sfgame what can lead to actually beneficial and fun updates which doesnít feel boring , repetitive , shallow or cashgrabby. I decided to add those ideas after first reading of my old post into which I decided to add bit of my own creativity and fantasy . As I already mentioned above , I spent way too much effort and time creating the post and I donít really believe that it will improve the game whatsoever . It looked as good idea before though . Allow me to highlight the fact that game is spreading its lowering playerbase among more and more servers what canít work forever . This was I suppose the main message I tried to interpret through my post . Ideas for improvement are absolutely minor.

Pastak 28th August 2019 08:47 PM

Berserkers are overpowered. Look at the int world 35. In top 30 there are 23 berserkers, 5 scouts and 2 wizards at the moment. The best battle mage is on 74th place, the best assasin 44th place, the best knight 31st place. So what the hell is going on here?

The game should be balanced. Those who say berserkers are balanced with other factions, are wrong. Of course, on the same level they are balanced in pvp with other faction but in general they are not. Why?

There is something like a potential of each class. Some factions have greatest potential if they get lucky and some faction have better constant performance. It's something like damage range by weapons. Battle mages have the worst potential to beat much better opponent than they are because they have constant fireball, constant armor, no evasion, no shield. So the differences in battles are made only by luck and/or weapon damage range but with ther poor damage they are very limited by these options. Knights have at least 25% chance to block so if you get lucky and block more attacks in one battle, you may get advantage but those cases are quite rare. Assasins have 50% evasion like scouts but it's much more complicated to get luck for both 2 attacks (assasins) than on 1 attack (scout), so scouts have greater potential to make greater damage than assasins in general. Wizards have no shield, no evasion, but they can rely on luck, every lucky hit makes a great damage boost. If they do 3-4 lucky hits in row, it may lead to win even against much better opponent than they are.
Berserkers are not actually limited at all. If you get 5-6 attacks in row many times or once 10+ hits in row, the damage potential is great especially with lucky hits.
Why I am writing this is because players have more attempts to beat monsters in dungeons. What you need are "just" many mushrooms and try it again and again. If you try to play for berserkers 50 times the same battle against much stronger opponent, there will be let's say 5 battles where you get lucky and win the game. Scouts make let's say 3 from 50, wizards/assasins 2 from 50, knights 1 from 50 and battle mage none od 50.
In dungeons you don't need good constant damage, you just need to get through the stage which guarantees many experiences. Many experiences mean higher character level. Higher character level means better stats, better arts, better golds, exps etc. which making your character stronger.
So no, with unlimited tries in dungeons the game is not balanced at all because when you are battle mage or knight you will be level 120-150 while berserkers will be already level 200+ because of dungeons and how you can compete in pvp battles with them?... It's impossible.

Mads 29th August 2019 08:23 AM

Do you play a berserker? I do and i can say on level 252 i am pretty limited right now. If you only play low level i can see whats bothering you, but as i already said, there will always be a class with the biggest advantage in early dungeons, it was the same thing with scouts. If you want to pick mage or battle mage and be on top in the first months, im sorry but thats not how this game works. These classes prevail later in the game.

Acclamator 29th August 2019 11:08 AM

I just want to give my two coins concerning berserkers. Mathematically they are balanced, the reason why they make up the biggest part of the hall of fame on new servers since they got into existence is that they offer high shrooming players the opportunity to level even faster as scout is able, because they have the potential for unusual fight results againnst every class including mage.

The solution I always offer to solve this problem is that not mage should deal berserkers double the damage (because what is this worth if mages dont deal any damage at all) but berserkers should deal mages half the damage. That way they would need far more luck and therefore far more shrooms to defeat mage opponents in dungeons that they shouldnt be able to defeat.

Unfortunately this idea didnt get much attention until now.


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