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  #1  
Old 29th October 2017, 12:53 PM
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sharshooter sharshooter is offline
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Thumbs down Underworld - better crits? NO!

Hello,

This new building - coach doesn't work. I have 10% better crits (2 lvl).
I started pet fights:

1st hit normal: 191028
2nd hit normal: 245607

3rd (if normal):300186
but 3rd was crit: 600372 (x2 normal) - basic crit without coach!!!

Where is my 10% more? It should be x2,1. Playa gave new feature and it doesn't work xD I bet 99% won't even notice it
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  #2  
Old 29th October 2017, 01:20 PM
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LucaBlack LucaBlack is offline
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You observe wrong, caus you deduce with one example [...]

How much times you need to repeat a fight in exact same conditions to observe right? Thousands, easily. It's called make statistics.

There is a part of RNG on fights on this game. A HUGE part or RNG. First, for every turn the damage change:
turn 1: A attack: basic damage
turn 2: B attack: damage X1.2
turn 3: A attack: damage X1.4
turn 4: B attack: damage X1.6
turn 5: A attack: dodge/parry
turn 6: B attack: damage X2
[...]

Second, there is an other RNG part on each attacks. It comes from what I call weapon dispersion:
You don't know this values for pets, fortress and underworld units but it doesn't mean it's not here.

Third, we know if a hit are critical the damage are around X2, but we don't even know if there is no RNG in it too. It could be a random value between X1.95 and X2.05 for example.

So please don't conclude on a single fight what you will need thousands more to be sure of what you say...
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  #3  
Old 29th October 2017, 05:03 PM
Eggman95 Eggman95 is offline
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starshooter is right.

with my test char i battled unhere with 10% crit-bonus and with 15% crit-bonus.

i saved 5 fights with 10% bonus and compared it with 6 fights with 15%.
the damage did not change.

here my results:
10%
attacking first:
1. hit: 160,943 / 321,886 (crit.)
2.hit: 214,591 / 429,182 (crit.)
3.hit: ??? / 536,477 (crit.)

attacking secound:
1. hit: 187,767 / 375,534 (crit.)
2.hit: ??? / 482,829 (crit.)


15%
attacking first:
1. hit: 160,943 / ??? (crit.)
2.hit: ??? / 429,182 (crit.)
3.hit: 268,239 / ??? (crit.)

attacking secound:
1. hit: 187,767 / 375,534 (crit.)
2.hit: 241,415 / 482,829 (crit.)


you can see the values did not change,
i also checked if it is just visual, but no the life is reduced by the same amount.


i of course can not tell if the crit-bonus works / doesnt work for your char and companions,
but i know it doesnt work for the pets



Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LucaBlack View Post

[...] Second, there is an other RNG part on each attacks. It comes from what I call weapon dispersion:
You don't know this values for pets, fortress and underworld units but it doesn't mean it's not here. [...]
You are mistaken, we know the weapon damage of pets,
they have absolutly no range / no RNG:

Last edited by Eggman95; 29th October 2017 at 05:19 PM.
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  #4  
Old 29th October 2017, 05:20 PM
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Leander Leander is offline
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Thanks for your report, we will look into this!
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  #5  
Old 29th October 2017, 06:16 PM
Sersemina Sersemina is offline
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I was very sceptical at first too, because it is harder to verify this critical damage bonus and bugs do happen so I decided to test it myself. For the purpose I equiped a weapon with very low damage range so it would output very similar results for each fight.



Then I saved several fights against Twister 546 with 5% critical bonus. Here is my third hit:



Then I waited to build my Gladiator Trainer to level two so it gives me 10% bonus without buying any stats between the fights. Here is my third hit again:



First fight: 16.422 / 1.05 = 15.64 (without bonus)
Second fight: 15.64 * 1.10 = 17.204 (approximately what you see on the picture)

I compared 4-5 hits and the result was all the same: first hit / 1.05 = second hit / 1.10

So be cool with this one - the most important bonus works Pets probably need fixing, I haven't tested that, but my hero bonus is good enough for me.
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  #6  
Old 29th October 2017, 08:01 PM
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sharshooter sharshooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sersemina View Post

So be cool with this one - the most important bonus works Pets probably need fixing, I haven't tested that, but my hero bonus is good enough for me.
Sersemina there is no proof in your post. In your case I would agree with LucaBlack. You have ranged weapon. How can you know that this 2nd cirt in not just a bit better range hit? How can you see that 10% bonus in this case? It's impossible in your case! Only one way to check is PETS.

Pets have always same (no range) dmg and you can evaluate dmg:

1Hit(no crit)
2Hit(no crit)=1hit(no crit) + delta

delta=2Hit-1Hit

3Hit=2Hit+delta

And so on. Crit is x2 normal DMG (ALWAYS).
So in this case:

"
here my results:
10%
attacking first:
1. hit: 160,943 / 321,886 (crit.)
2.hit: 214,591 / 429,182 (crit.)
3.hit: ??? / 536,477 (crit.)
"
Delta=53,648

So 3.Hit (no crit) = 214,591 + 53,648 = 268,239

3.Hit(cirt) = 3.Hit(no crit) x2 = 536,478

Calculations match exactly to observed result. Where is then this 10% bonus dmg? Answer - it doesn't work!!!

If it doesn't work for pets - I assume it doesn't work for all others. You can't check it simple in PvP, PvM because of range weapon.


THERE IS NO RNG IN DMG!!!!!!!

Last edited by sharshooter; 29th October 2017 at 08:02 PM.
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  #7  
Old 29th October 2017, 08:44 PM
Eggman95 Eggman95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharshooter View Post
Sersemina there is no proof in your post. In your case I would agree with LucaBlack. You have ranged weapon. How can you know that this 2nd cirt in not just a bit better range hit? [...]
Sersemina clearly presented his evidence,
look at his first screenshoot:

His weapeon has a range of 4 or to be more precise his weapon has a deviation of (1562/1560 = ~1,0012821) ~0,13%.

That clearly shows that the gladiator works for your main char.



@Sersemina if you give that weapon to your scout-companion and do a few trys in shadow easteros, you could check if the gladiator applies there.
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  #8  
Old 29th October 2017, 09:04 PM
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sharshooter sharshooter is offline
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Sersemina can you upgrade coach to 20% and dont invest stats in dex please. Show us that crit with 20% coach and same other stuff/stats.
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  #9  
Old 29th October 2017, 11:23 PM
Sersemina Sersemina is offline
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@sharshooter , I think we are on the same page already, but just a few more thoughts on that: I would use the world "delta" to describe the deviation from the average. As Eggman95 pointed, my weapon damage deviation is 0.13%, so if the average third hit is 16.42 mln , there is no way with ± 0.13% deviation I can get a 17.2 mln hit. Also, you mentioned something that is not quite correct:
"And so on. Crit is x2 normal DMG (ALWAYS).". You are forgetting the 5% bonus from the enhanced weapon so the critical damage is = normal damage * 2 * 1.05. That's why I excluded the normal hits from my observations and focused on crits only.

@Eggman95, I will test the tower companions too. I already tried a few fights, but the problem is my companions are completely naked. I have abandoned the shadow dungeons and focused on Twister so my scout companion currently has about 20% chance to crit. That makes it a lot harder to collect data. I spent a few mushrooms, but I didn't get a single crit from him... Now that I think about it, I can use my main character equpment on the tower companion and try again with higher luck, but this will probably happen tomorrow or on Tuesday, because I am collecting souls for Soul Extractor level 5 and have my own plans for the Underworld buildings. I will keep you posted
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  #10  
Old 31st October 2017, 08:38 AM
Sersemina Sersemina is offline
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The bonus works on companions too! Here is the same test:

1. Low range weapon:



2. First hit with 10% gladiator bonus:



3: First hit with 15% gladiator bonus:



Results: 23,74 / 1,10 * 1,15 = 24,819
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