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View Poll Results: S&F is becoming Pay2Win or Not ?
Yes 12 63.16%
No 7 36.84%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #1  
Old 20th June 2015, 08:04 AM
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Valkyra Valkyra is offline
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Unhappy Pay2Win or Not ?

Pay2Win or Not ? That is The Big Question !

Hello brave warriors, skilled archers and almighty mages.
Since the 6th game birthday is coming up i thought about writing some facts about the game. As we all know the official voices say that Shakes & Fidget is NOT a Pay2Win game. I agree it was hard for them to keep it on the edge but since the Cursed Tube was removed from the game because players abused it i noticed many high level players quitting, taking a break from the game or moving to another server.
So my question is: S&F is Pay2Win or Not ?
Let's analyze the problem a bit.

1. THIRST

A regular player above lvl 66 has 100 initial thirst + 20 from the free beer + 20 from the free daily mushroom. That's 140 thirst / day.
A donating player has 100 initial thirst + 20 from the free beer + 20 from the free daily mushroom + 180 from the rest of 9 mushrooms. That's 320 thirst / day.

My conclusion: Definitely Pay2Win.


2. GEAR and POTIONS

Who have the advantage, the regular player who is using mostly regular gear or donation player who have mostly epics ?
That's a useless question... we all know the answer.
As for the potion boosters it's the same. It is very hard to find 25% potions if you don't refresh the shop goods. I did a test by spending 100 mushrooms in the magic shop and still the chance of getting a good potion (25%) is very very low. Add that the server has very few active players and you will go nuts. I guess it depends on luck too but all i do here is state the facts.

My conclusion: Definitely Pay2Win.


3. THE FORTRESS

Yes, most of us are waiting this one and we will see it soon. Unfortunately i'm almost 90% sure after seeing the short animated trailer video yesterday that the buildings will require mushrooms for upgrade at a point. I totally understand that Playa is not a charity company so please don't judge me. All i'm stating here are the facts seen from an impartial point of view. So...

My conclusion: Pay2Win.


4. MOUNT

It seems The Fox mount gained after watching an ad is keeping the game alive for some regular players. Is it enough though ???

My conclusion: Not Pay2Win.

What do you think ? Vote and be heard !



Another concern i have is more a decision making thing. Although i love the idea of having the first international world coming up in few days i think this one couldn't come at a worse time and i cannot stop to wonder if it's worth starting fresh on this server. Why ? Because even the server it's not started yet already there are at least 3 guilds that are recruiting donating players and i'm sure they don't have any spots open for regular players. So what chances do i have to be on the top places in Hall of Fame ?! NONE !
Playa should take a look at the game's player base and come up with something revolutionary to help the regular players or the only ones that will still play the game (before they also will loose interest because the low player base) will be the ones who donate.
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  #2  
Old 20th June 2015, 08:49 AM
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As you say, after 2.0 upgrade a lot of players left the game: it was announced the to be the biggest upgrade ever but they found only a lot of bugs.
After that, the removal of Cursed Tube couldn't arrive in the worst moment: after the disappointment for upgrade, the inability to be competitive with the Tube for free players caused many more dropouts.

Some ideas in 2.0 were really good, but really necessary? Even good things have been obscured by bugs.
The tube was essential for too many people, and remember that it was for free for players but Playa gain money from that (so was relatively free play).
There were a lot of other solution to prevent complaints from video supplier (eg: captcha on video). So it was another fault by Playa.

Who has already a -50%, why can't take any advantage from videos?

In Italy the situation is: less people that pay for playing, less people that watch useless video.

There are people that have finished tower and dungeons some time ago. Why don't increase their interest adding more of that?

What is clear also is the lack of beta testing: it's my opinion that a international beta testing server, where everyone could log in and refer directly to an international community manager (that has a direct line with Playa), is really useful to prevent disaster like S&F 2.0 release (we have seen it also in Bloodmoon, so it is not just a case). Testing better is the only way........... I menage an IT department so I know the beta testing importance.

It reports only facts, noting the environment in my community of origin. Every criticism I just want to be constructive.
  #3  
Old 20th June 2015, 08:56 AM
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This discussion comes up requently every time a server or a new update is ready for release.
Indeed SF must be a pay-to-win game but the difference between Payers and Players is very, very small.

Remember a couple of things:
- all content in SF has a dedicated endpoint
- faster leveling means earlier revenue-malus

--> which results in the following: the faster you are, the earlier you are done.

Sure you "can" spend hundreds of thousands of mushrooms for advantage but how big is this advantage and when do you spend them?
Spend them at the beginning of a server means big advantage for the spender. But what comes next?
Using the very best strategy for leveling you will be able to reach LV325 within 1,5 years and at that
point you already have accomplished 85% of all SF-Content. Keeping in mind that LV500 levelcap is
currently reachable after nine years there is no need to hurry up.

Look at my posting Over there

Below you can see the current content situation of SF


As well as the the content for year one and two



During my carrier I have met thousands of player who went the fast way but 95% of them do not
have the guts and the endurance to keep up their playing for the long and surely boring time of LV325 and above.
If you just save your mushrooms by only using ten of them per day you might get into some delay at the beginning
but you´ll definitely overtake 95% of all other players once you have passed year two.

Even with SF2.0 you will find 4.22 free-of-charge mushrooms per full playing day.
With that finding you´ll see that one 3600 Mushroom package will last for over two years.

The only difference is the magical toilette.
The Payers will only loose their advantage of spending epics on the toilette after 6.6 years.

Much words one conclusion:
SF might be played as full time pay-2-win but with very little advantages of it.

Don´t beleave in my words?
Do as you like but the world record is still owned by us
---Y http://forum-int.sfgame.net/showthread.php?t=4312

Last edited by iudex; 20th June 2015 at 08:59 AM.
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  #4  
Old 20th June 2015, 09:09 AM
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Here you will evidence other problems: more of S&F features (mirror, witch, most dungeons) are compressed in the first year of gaming.
After that?
1 dungeon or tower every month (if you're lucky)?
I've ended dungeons at level 306. Now I've only portals, tower and toilet. Nothing else (dungeons, mirror, witch, etc).
After level 3xx the game comes to be boring: you have to spent a lot time to get a new level, pass a new portal, etc.
This is why, in my opinion, people want a new server open every time: it's more fun. You have more things to do.
What we need is to have more high level feature to use.
  #5  
Old 20th June 2015, 09:17 AM
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GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Valkyra it depends on how you see things. From your point of view, of course S&F is a "pay-to-win" game (i don't like the term, cause even if you buy mushrooms, you still need to put a lot of effort to keep up with 6.5 hours of questing daily). ANY game that gives you even the slightest competitive advantage over a player who does not buy game currency is in that type of games.

Nonetheless, (and this comes from a person who plays this game for more than 5 years), I will give you another point of view to reconsider:

It took me (roughly) a year and a half to go from level 1 to 300. I reached level 300 on november of 2011. Now, June of 2015, almost 4 years later, using 320 thirst a day, i am level 380.

You know what that means? It means that the game is "unequal" for players who race till level 300 (the difference is huge between shroomers and non shroomers). BUT, after level 300, the game makes it so hard and painful to level, that only the most dedicated players manage to progress (shroomers or non shroomers).

I see people who never used shrooms be 40 levels below me (due to the fact above), and even if i have higher level and better stats, there are some cases that i lose battles against them.

So no, I disagree that this game is "pay-to-win", it is quite the opposite. It needs lots of dedication and hours played to be among the best. Yes, without shrooms you will never be no.1, but you will still be able to beat anyone near your level range.
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  #6  
Old 20th June 2015, 12:00 PM
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Depand on what "Win" is. Place in hall of fame? Than yes. But is it a win? Do you play a game jost to win or becouse you like playing it? For me leaderboard is useless so only think I need to buy mushroom for i guild. Since TV no longer yield toadstool its harder get people want to spend buyed mushrooms on guild, even whan tv gived mushrooms only dew players would donate them^^ but better few than none^^.


You can even get golden frame from mission mushrooms (tested by myself). So for me its not pay2win.

Last edited by Bqczek; 20th June 2015 at 12:01 PM.
  #7  
Old 20th June 2015, 02:58 PM
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Easy guys... don't shoot the messenger. As i said in the main subject it's only my opinion.
But for me the facts speak for themselves.

1. FACT > It's fun to play until lvl 250 - 280. After it's a pain in the arse and the game become really boring because you level slow and you basically have nothing else to do.
2. FACT > This is a competitive game after all. The main goal is to RULE THE SERVER. PERIOD.
3. FACT > Although there are millions of accounts... the player base is so low you almost can count it on your fingers. Trust me when i say "That's bad for business".
4. FACT > The new world server will be overrun by donators even from the start. Don't say that life is not fair either because it's not about that. As i said this world came at the worst time. But Playa needs money so it will be their downfall in my opinion. I saw this scenario too many times. If they don't do something quick to balance the game even more players will quit.

I could go on and on but i think it's enough.
Again... please don't shoot the messenger. I only speak my mind.
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  #8  
Old 20th June 2015, 04:22 PM
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balance of the game shakes and fidget hmmmmm. I have played a few other online mmo's and from my experience this is the MOST BALANCED of them all I play on s9 US and have never bought shrooms and I am in the top 60 in HoF for players and top 10 for guilds given time I believe I can be a top 10 player.

Yes any online game the advantage goes to the pay to play but where I have seen the haves and have nots so extreme example top payer on the server I play on another game I play is like 1.8 million battle rating and me I have a 838k BR and I use to spend quite a bit the average non casher has a BR of like 300k.

here cost to be a decent casher is abt $100.00 every 3 months or so the other game is like $5,000.00 a month but more like 10k a month.

So to end my post yeah there is some advantage to paying here the difference is not that much.
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  #9  
Old 20th June 2015, 05:34 PM
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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree that it's balanced.

I have paid for shrooms from day one. I am lucky enough to be able to do that.

There are many, many that cannot either for economic reasons or because maybe they are kids and their parents won't pay for them to play online games.

George, you say you have played 320 thirst a day for 5 years. I challenge you to play for a month without using your shrooms. No epics because you can't afford to "waste" 15 or 30 on a couple of epics. No PELs. No griffin. You can use the "one a day" shrooms on exp and gold weekends, but nothing during the week. Then tell me how much you can compete. Tell me how hard it is to sit there and give up those epics because you don't have the shrooms to spend. Or do you buy the epic on epic weekends and not play for exp or gold on the following weekend. You have choices you have to make. Which is going to benefit your account more?

I have people who play in my guild who are on fixed incomes and they come and play the game to be able to chat with others because they are physically stuck in their homes. They can't afford to buy shrooms. When we had the vids, they were able to play against those of us who can afford to buy shrooms.

It's easy for us who HAVE shrooms to sit here and say, "Nah, it's no big deal to have shrooms. You can play without them and still compete."

TRY IT. I am doing it right now on a different server than my massively shroomed account. It's fun right now because I'm low level. I can move up. I can have all the fun, but once I'm a higher level, doing 120 minutes a day is going to SUCK! It's going to make me question whether I want to continue building that character.

I'm level 342 and I've been playing for 4 years on my main account. It takes about a month to level up. That's playing 320 a day, every day. On the other server, if I continue to play without shrooming, it's going to take 3 months to see a new level. Really? Please tell me where the fun in THAT is, to take that long to see ONE level. To be able to upgrade your tower followers ONE level so you can MAYBE beat a tower level. I sat on one tower level for over 2 months, and that was with shrooms. Imagine if I wasn't playing with shrooms and it took 5 months to beat a tower level.

You want to make it balanced, every time they start a server where people can buy shrooms, start a server that is shroom-less other than what we can earn during quests and the one-a-day. Everyone is on the same level playing field then.

Yesterday I sat here and watched the forum chat. People were recruiting for the new server. Want to know what I saw? "You have to play 320 minutes a day and you have to have a 50% mount, and you have to keep the PEL and best potions at all times, or you are not worthy of being in the guild I'm setting up." So basically, if you aren't shrooming, then you are not worth the time to be in this glorious guild that is going to be number one.

People can sing the praises of how balanced this game is all they want, but reality is, it's not. People can still play the game without shrooms, that's absolutely true, but don't say non-shroomers have the same chances as shroomers, because that's complete and utter garbage.

And one more thing. Playa gave people the shroom vids for a year and a half. Those people who were not able to buy shrooms got a taste of how great it is to be able to play 320 minutes a day. Then it got ripped out from under their feet, and they got left hanging. Yes, Playa got screwed because some stupid people couldn't just play the blasted game, but the players who were having fun and being able to compete when they couldn't buy shrooms, they got hosed too. If it was truly balanced, those same people wouldn't be asking me every day, "Med, have you heard anything about them bringing back the vids?"
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  #10  
Old 20th June 2015, 05:48 PM
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I do agree with what you say medusa unfortunately no game will be truly balanced that has a free to play and pay 2 play options in it just the nature of the beast but compared to other mmo's I play/played s+f is the most balanced here you DO have a chance to be a top 50 or 100 player without ever buying shrooms. yes it takes longer think it took me over 2 years on s9 US to get where I am but it is possible other games if you don't spend u are lucky to even be in top 1000 and you there basicly to just waste time and socialize both are good in a way.

yes there is some inbalance here if there wasn't no one would pay to play.


Oh one other thing here at least everyone can do everything up to a point without shrooms. the other game I currently play they come out with big updates that only the pay 2 play ppl can do or really get anywhere for up to 6 months or more when they finally start making it easier for the free to play ppl can start doing they want their 10k+ from each of the top cashers first.

hopefully we do get the vids back soon I know I ask leander abt every few weeks or so and I am probably driving him nuts by now abt it.
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