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Old 7th October 2020, 02:13 PM
PLSKICKME PLSKICKME is offline
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Default Class Pvp Balance with maths

Hey, so i've seen many people saying that one class is OP, buff this and that, and rock paper scissors thing.

In this calculation we will assume that both characters are high enough in level to cap out their armor rate and luck.
All character can have 50% luck, increasing the expected damage by 50% so its pointless to factor it here.

The main factor is that ON AVERAGE what PERCENT of the damage is being dealt to one another, since thats what pvp is about, reducing the enemys hp to zero while yours is above 0.

If i made a mistake feel free to correct me.
So base stats(from the german wiki):
HP Armor Evade Attack
Warrior 5x 50% 25% 1x
Scout 4x 25% 50% 1.25x
Mage 2x 10% 0% 2.25x
BattleMage 5x 50% 0% 1x
Berserker 4x 25% 0% 1x(EDIT: There is a hidden bonus of 25%, so its 1.25x )
Assassin 4x 25% 50% 1.25x (2*0.625)
DH 4x 50% 0% 1.25x
DruidW 5x 50% 25% 1x(2.25*0.44)
DruidS 4x 25% 50% 1.25x(2.25*0.55)
DruidM 2x 10% 0% 0.74x(2.25*0.33)

So start with the easier ones, the basics:
Warrior vs scout:
Warrior has 25% more hp, and the scout has 25% more dmg, evading half of the attacks and neglecting 25% dmg is the same statistically as evading 25% of the attacks and resisting 50% of the damage, so warriors are just as strong as scouts.

Mage: Ignore defense and evasion, meaning its the same vs a warrior as vs a scout.
A mage deals 2.25 times more dmg than a warrior and the warrior has 2.5 times the hp but the mage ignores 10% of all damage received, so mage is equally strong as warriors and therefore, as scouts.

So with this, i dont get why people say its rock paper scissors because statistically they are the same.

Now the new dudes:
Assassin: A scout with less RNG, if you are unlucky, this is a good class, if you are lucky, this is a bad class. (Scout vs scout: 50% to hit, 50% to not hit Assassin vs scout: 25% to not hit, 50% to deal half dmg, 25% to hit for full dmg)
Needing two weapons will always mean that youll be weaker than a scout, because one weapon will will always be better than the other. i really wish devs just made it a one weapon class that hits twice.

Demon hunter: Warrior armor with scout stats instead of the 25% block chance, it gets 25% revive chance. Unlike for assasins, being unlucky is huge pain and being lucky is a gift. Cant revive against mages, but nor can warriors/scouts dodge against them, so they are on the same ground.

Druids: Druid warrior=normal warrior, druid scout=normal scout, druid mage= a bad mage dealing only 33% of the mages damage. So if you cant decide if you want to be a warrior or scout choose this.


The above classes are identical in terms of power.


Berserker: Scout armor and hp, dmg is 1x not 1.25. Due to its ability triggering 50% of the time dealing 2x damage and that can happen several times
means that their expected damage is 2 times higher than a normal attack(50% to deal damage once, 25% to deal damage twice, 12.5% to deal damage thrice and so on.), and 160% times bigger of a scouts attack, but loosing that sweet 50% dodge means that berserkers lose 50% of survival abbility and therefore are 20% worse than scouts(and dodge/block/revive characters) on average.
Berserkers vs mage setup: Mages deal 2x damage to berserkers, thats an ability. With this, berserkers have twice the hp and mages have 2.5 times the damage. so berskerkers are again, 20% worse than mages...

Man only if berserkers had scout weapons 1.25x damage multiplieror the warriors health it would be so balanced. Well but berserkers can get really lucky in dungeons and in pvp too.
EDIT: Lol there IS a hidden bonus as i mentioned, so its balanced too.


Battlemage: A warrior, deals 33% of the enemys hp(depends on the Bm's HP but since its as healthy as a warrior and we are speaking of equal stat opponents its likely that this caps out and deals 33% dmg), meaning that the BM only needs to deal 2/3 of the enemy's hp, which is equal to killing 100% but having 50% more damage. but loosing the 25% block chance, meaning a warrior has 33% more survival ability. by this you can see that a battle mage is stronger than a warrior and therefore, stronger than all "block/evade/revival" classes.
BM vs mage:Mage ignore fireball, making this fight a warrior vs mage fight which is equally good.



So what you guys think about this calculation? I really hope i made a mistake in either in the calculation or using wrong data.


Tldr: Classes are balanced, except Bm being stronger and berserker being weaker.

Last edited by PLSKICKME; 12th October 2020 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Correction of numbers.
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Old 8th October 2020, 12:46 AM
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All classes are balanced ... (tho of course there are some aspects of the classes that aren't as balanced ... mainly because of how their mechanics work)

I would recommend you to visit the discord and look at the FAQ. It includes a picture with balance calculations that show how exactly the classes work together ...

Anyhow. Your first issue with this was depending on some wiki and not finding out yourself
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Old 8th October 2020, 11:14 PM
PLSKICKME PLSKICKME is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mar21 View Post
All classes are balanced ... (tho of course there are some aspects of the classes that aren't as balanced ... mainly because of how their mechanics work)

I would recommend you to visit the discord and look at the FAQ. It includes a picture with balance calculations that show how exactly the classes work together ...

Anyhow. Your first issue with this was depending on some wiki and not finding out yourself
Hey i checked the dc, well the discord is quite outdated as it doesnt have battlemage nor the new druid class... Okay berserkers have a hidden bonus which is nowhere said, then my calculations checks out and its as strong as the others.
I didnt have an issue apart from members crying to buff xy, all i did was just make the calculations to check if all classes are equally strong or not.
The wiki was the source of the stats, since i would not start new characters just to check them out
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Old 9th October 2020, 10:51 AM
Mads Mads is offline
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If berserker has the 'hidden bonus', why would it be hidden? Assassin and druid both have their damage multipliers shown in the formula.
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Old 9th October 2020, 05:25 PM
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The reason Druid is missing is that it's not unique in any way. Cat Druid is a pure Scout, Bear Druid is pure Warrior. Therefore there is no need to include them again, but perhaps it would be good idea to mention that, that's true.

BM is missing tho that's true We will fix that soon enough
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Old 12th October 2020, 11:53 PM
Yeld11 Yeld11 is offline
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It might be nice to elaborate on what gear or stats are useful for the various classes. For example, If you are a Druid with the cat mask, which you are comparing to a normal Scout, should you boost DEX or INT more?
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Old 13th October 2020, 10:23 AM
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You should always up your main/con. Therefore whatever mask you wear as a druid you always up INT.
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