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  #1  
Old 18th December 2018, 12:12 AM
Bix Bix is offline
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Default Black gems vs. main stat color gems

Greetings everyone,

Long time player, first time poster here - I've searched the forums to ensure this topic hadn't been covered before. I supposed it must have been, but I were unable to find anything, so please excuse me if I make a double post or something.

Lately, we've been in a discussion in one of my guilds about which gem should be put in priority in item sockets.
I've always put black gems in my sockets in priority, and only as a second choice, main stat color gems - STR for warrior, DEX for Assassin/Scout, INT for Mage/BattleMage).

On my level 357 warrior with a level 18 Gem Mine, I get STR gems of about +650, and black gems of about +430.

For a black gem : secondary stats are irrelevant here, and Luck also since we've all reached the 50% crit for quite a time. Still, I've always assumed that +430 in STR *and* +430 in CON, was always a better choice than a single bonus of +650 in STR.

A long time ago, around the beginning of my play era on S&F (back in 2010 somewhere), I think I remember I had read some theory-crafting article on a forum probably lost since then, which gave some "weighing" to the stats to try to balance/refine their priority & importance.
I can't put back exact numbers on this but I remember that your main stat is not twice as important as CON, and thus a "combined bonus" of +860 in our example here, even with weighing CON a little bit less, was still a better choice than a +650.
That's for the same reason, I suppose, that all top players on both my servers focus on triple-stat (main/CON/luck) epic items instead of +ALL epic items, socketing them with black gems.

But lately, someone in my other guild (I play on 2 servers) is empirically claiming that he's climbing the Hall of Fame ladder with progressively replacing his black gems with DEX gems (the guy is Assassin level 344).
He's the ONLY one in the ladder to do that at his position (#60 - yes it's a recent server); everyone I mean everyone in the top 100, have all their sockets filled with black gems.

He claims that the base damage is the most important of all, as well as the combination with the critical hits bonuses from the Gladiator in Hell, and that we should focus on this instead of the black gems.
I tend to say that having a ton of damage while having low CON is a bit like being a glass sword - you need some balance after all or you just won't even be able to deal your impressive damage.

Now I'm really wondering about this. Do we have some theorycrafting about this issue somewhere on these forums? Is the idea to actually use main stat gems not so foolish after all? Maybe only for more DPS-oriented classes such as mages and assassin, while the others like my warrior should still focus on the CON bonus from black gems?

What do you guys think?
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  #2  
Old 18th December 2018, 12:17 AM
Apollo Apollo is offline
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Black gems are way better than main-stat gems - even more since you're a warrior and you'll benefit a lot from the extra HP you get.
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  #3  
Old 18th December 2018, 03:01 AM
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bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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As a warrior I use the main stat only it keeps me at the top of the HoF and fairly close with dungeons with the top scout on my server.
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Old 18th December 2018, 09:41 AM
Acclamator Acclamator is offline
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Its always, always better to use black gems. Also it's absolut correct that damage is what matters in the end, but u get your main statt (and therefore damage) with your base skills.

You porpably know that the base skills are capped at a cost of 10mio and so you can upgrade your mainskill as much as you find appropriate to get your main skills that you don't get from black gems.

E.g. I have only 3-statt-epics, only black gems and 26.129 dext and 7.500 const as a scout, aiming at 30.000 dext base currently. That gives me 66.770 dext and 36.731 const at the moment, which is about the distribution that I find appropriate.

To sum up, black gems give you the most statts, there is nothing to argue about this and the fine tuning can be done with your base skills.
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  #5  
Old 18th December 2018, 04:43 PM
K0rkki K0rkki is offline
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I don't have any numbers, but for sure (extra) damage is multiplied more and more the longer a fight goes. Since PvE is largely about pursuing very favourable block/dodge/crit rolls it could very well be that main stat gems are currently underrated. Theoretically you get the most out of your main stat with a weapon that has a big gap between minimum and maximum damage.

The battle system is pretty nice at the moment. It isn't easy to determine wether some extra constitution helps you take one more hit or if some extra points in main stat allows you to beat an enemy with one attack less. This combined with the fact that the expected duration of a fight changes depending on which classes are fighting.
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Old 18th December 2018, 08:05 PM
Acclamator Acclamator is offline
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Quote:
Since PvE is largely about pursuing very favourable block/dodge/crit rolls it could very well be that main stat gems are currently underrated
What hinders you to use black gems and skill as much in your main statt instead of constitution as you would have with a main statt gem?
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  #7  
Old 19th December 2018, 08:41 AM
Sersemina Sersemina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo baggins View Post
As a warrior I use the main stat only it keeps me at the top of the HoF and fairly close with dungeons with the top scout on my server.
bobo, on your server you simply don't have competition, that's why you are at the top. My guild leader has been a shroomer since the server started. I was a non shroomer for an year and a half, may be two. He has only main stat gems and I have only black gems.
He has: main stat + const = 114K points
I have: main stat + const = 137K points

We both play for gold.
I've been bying only main stat + const for the last couple of years. If I don't buy main stats, I buy constitution.

So if your main stat gems give you 10,000 points, when you convert them to black gems, they will give you 6,500 main stat + 6,500 const. That's 13,000 combined even without counting the +6,500 of everything else. That's an easy 3000 points win. The only reason I would use main stat gems is to change my main stat/const ratio. In the beginning I did not have enough main stat so I used such gems, but now I control this ratio by buying points and for me there is no other option than using black gems.
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  #8  
Old 19th December 2018, 02:46 PM
david4244 david4244 is offline
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Pretty much what Sersemina said.
There is just no point in going anything else other than black gems. You want more main stats? Go ahead and buy only main stats, but going losing 3000 stats for no reason (staying at his example to get numbers too) would be pointless and then we didn't even count the str, int, luck stat bonuses too [which aint matter much, but 6500 off stats plus aswell is better than 0]

Only reason i could see using main gems is either at lower lvls or aagainst certain dungeon mobs, but in the long term on a 200+ lvl char, nah, black gems all the way.
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